He remembers his commanding officer Abrams as a political genius who turned the war around.. WebThe conventional wisdom was that everybody carried a rifle, patrolled the jungle and faced death daily, but thats false, said William Shkurti, who served as an artillery officer in a remote area about 300 yards from the Cambodian border in fall 1970. The family moved to Phoenix, Arizona, where they have been for the past 40 years. We have four children, plenty of grandchildren, both biological and through marriages, and five great-grandchildren. I had an uncle that was drafted out of Brooklyn, NY. We would take orders from Washington and from the five information streams (personnel, intelligence, operations, logistics and political implications) and use all that information to create an order of the day, Lomperis said. Outdoor Recreation Center. He also wrote the liner notes, which reveal a surprising fact: The U.S. Army spends an estimated $200 million a year on music, and is the largest single employer of musicians in the country. Even as the war drew down in 1975 and early 1976, the pressure was intense as huge numbers of men came home with addictions and injuries too horrible to really describe, Thornton said. That was where I met my wife. would have to use the scheduled bus service to get around the base, Lair wrote in Armed with Abundance.. The guys with the gear in the rear. Is it if you might be in danger of a mortar attack versus projecting violence and delivering it to the enemy? The post exchanges, or PXs, rivaled todays big box outlets for variety and selection, Lair said. For military intelligence officer Timothy Lomperis, the constant whup, whup, whup of helicopters flying overhead is one of many things that stand out in his mind about the time he spent helping make critical war decisions in Saigon serving under Gen. Creighton Abrams, commander of U.S. Military Assistance Command, Vietnam, from 1968 to 1972. Over 220 others have already been closed, mostly following the end of the Cold War in the 1990s. He never carried a gun because if he was shot, the enemy soldier could have claimed it was self-defense, he said. During that time, I was assigned to the sick officers quarters, sadly watching many men pass away. Hollander says it isn't clear what the Army planned to do with these recordings, especially since so few copies of them have surfaced just three dozen in East of Underground's case. Please switch auto forms mode to off. Dave. During World War 2 Volunteering for the draft was a common term, that is that after a point enlistment in the Army was halted for the duration, only draftees where accepted (This is for the Army only, the Navy and Marine Corps still took enlistees), and if a 18 year old or in many cases older guys in their 20s/30s who have not yet received a notice, or had a deferment, and gave up their deferment could "Volunteer for the Draft", this also applied (within the Army) for those 17 year old's who wanted to go into the Army. WebThe United States Army has 40 military installations in Germany, two of which are scheduled to close. 2. On leave, Thornton would head home to see family and friends, but the war changed things. "I'm just amazed that [the band's] three singers didn't have hit records after they left the Army. It was a game of cat and mouse that almost turned deadly when he was nearly killed by some drunk Vietnamese soldiers, Lomperis said. Our AIT class in 1971 at A.P.G. You will now be able to tab or arrow up or down through the submenu options to access/activate the submenu links. From sundries like razors and cigarettes, apple juice and chocolate milk to diamond jewelry and Rolex watches, stereos and kitchen appliances, servicepeople could buy just about anything even cars for their wives or girlfriends back home, said Lomperis. In the late 65 through 1966, the Army Divisions outside of Vietnam, specifically CONUS and West Germany were hemorrhaging personnel for service in South Vietnam, these being primarily if not exclusively volunteers, these numbers had to be made good. Its important for people to know they exist. Situated in a remote area with the enemy about 300 yards away over the border, Shkurtis unit was constantly in harms way. After graduating AIT at Fort Knox I was sent to their NCO Armor School. Ammunition storage facility, Heilbronn, West Germany (left); Tomorrow is too unpredictable, especially during deployment, he said. They were selected during something called "The U.S. Army's Original Magnificent Special Services Entertainment Showband Contest" let's just call it a battle of the bands. At the end of his service, Shkurti was an executive officer with the 6th Armored Cavalry at Fort Meade, Maryland. In the early years, dances were held on the streets of Berlin in summer months and in winter, the US Army organized Christmas parties for local children. From the end of World War II until the end of the war in Southeast Asia, the Army component command in Germany, the U.S. Army, Europe (USAREUR), managed military construction in the theater with its own Engineer organizations. I am focused on peace and conflict reduction on a global and local scale, he said. Many veterans struggled with feeling that their experience didnt measure up. I was in Infantry AIT at Ft. Polk Nov. 68-Jan 69. Additionally, not all Vietnam-era veterans served in-country. Drug abuse, overdoses, crime and traffic accidents led to several deaths within his unit. Peace activists, however, saw them as a threat and held massive demonstrations. You need to be a member in order to leave a comment. Patches, In 1968 you could volunteer for the draft and serve 2 years active duty. Expert architecture and design solutions for private carriers, next-generation metro and long-haul optical networks, ultra low-latency networks, and Internet backbones. Some Air Force Reservists who were crew members on C-123 Provider aircraft, formerly used to spray Agent Orange during the Vietnam War, have raised health concerns about exposure to residual amounts of herbicides on plane surfaces. After Boston, Thornton served at Marines Corps Base Camp Lejeune, North Carolina. With two sons already in the war, they felt I should not go. You would think (serving in Germany) would be a great duty, but it wasnt.. The conventional wisdom was that everybody carried a rifle, patrolled the jungle and faced death daily, but thats false, said William Shkurti, who served as an artillery officer in a remote area about 300 yards from the Cambodian border in fall 1970. To enter and activate the submenu links, hit the down arrow. After graduating from Ohio State University in 1968, William Shkurti said, I knew I was going to be drafted so I enlisted. This is the official public website of the Headquarters U.S. Army Corps of Engineers. Knowing that the threat is so close by is an incentive for people to work together. TCDD, the toxic substance in Agent Orange, may be inhaled as an aerosol or ingested by contaminated food or water or from hand-to-mouth transfer. East of Underground was one such band a multiracial, seven-piece group stationed in Germany at the tail end of the Vietnam War. Both Germany and Vietnam were on the front lines of the Cold War. This includes individuals who performed service in the Air Force or Air Force Reservewho regularly operated, maintained, or served onboard C-123 aircraft known to have been used to spray herbicides during the Vietnam era. Your message has not been sent. For website corrections, write to hqwebmaster@usace.army.mil. We wore different uniforms. was told," you are going to Germany, get your wives in german class". Most of his time was spent protecting government buildings from Vietnam War protesters. Boy, I thought I had it made, Shkurti said with a small laugh. The American military presence in Germany began at the end of World War II. In Germany the U.S. military was protecting West Germany against the threat of Russian invasion, but it wasnt imminent, Shkurti said. It was painful to even be around them. WebIn An Army in Crisis Alexander Vazansky analyzes the social crisis that developed among the U.S. Army forces stationed in Germany between 1968 and 1975. For the government ofLudwig Erhard (October 1963-November 1966) it was ultimately fatal. Why is Netflix pouring billions into South Korean shows? US MILITARIA FORUM - COLLECTORS PRESERVING HISTORY In-depth strategy and insight into critical interconnection ecosystems, datacenter connectivity, product optimization, fiber route development, and more. Another difference was the sense of solidarity he felt. Once we got our orders, the guy Just below me went to Germany. So many servicemen came home and saw how the story (of the Vietnam War) was being told. At any moment all hell could break loose, Lair said. 4) The Alps Swiss, German or French. They were touted as filling an important gap in NATO's deterrent shield against the Warsaw Pact. I expected it would be worse in Vietnam, but it was a more satisfying experience, Shkurti said. Their lot was really rugged, Lomperis said. At the end of the spraying campaign in 1971, the remaining C-123 planes were reassigned to reserve units in the U.S. for routine cargo and medical evacuation missions spanning the next 10 years. Supercharge your procurement process, with industry leading expertise in sourcing of network backbone, colocation, and packet/optical network infrastructure. Dotted around US bases are numerous residential districts for American soldiers and their families, such as this residential district in Wiesbaden-Erbenheim. The challenge was figuring out what the enemy would do. He attributed it to where he happened to be standing in a formation. But in Vietnam, the Cold War became an inferno. Office of Accountability & Whistleblower Protection, Training - Exposure - Experience (TEE) Tournament, Military Exposure Related Health Concerns, War Related Illness & Injury Study Center, Clinical Trainees (Academic Affiliations), Post-Vietnam Dioxin Exposure in Agent Orange-Contaminated C-123 Aircraft, local VA Environmental Health Coordinator, Find out if you qualify for VA health care, diseases related to Agent Orange exposure, Call TTY if you I talked to many men who felt sheepish that they didnt have those (combat) stories to share, Lair said. Especially from the minority groups, our black comrades, because they bore the brunt of the draft, were very unappreciated, and made the ultimate sacrifice above and beyond other groups, and for what? Thornton said. After completing Field Artillery Officer Candidate School at Fort Sill, Oklahoma, Shkurti was sent to Germany not Vietnam. From the end of World War II in 1945 until the end of the Cold War in 1991, Army Engineers played a key role in providing the facilities for arming, supplying, training, and housing American soldiers and airmen and their families in Europe. Over the years the US Army has become firmly entrenched in the German landscape. When support servicemen crossed paths with combat troops, We felt guilty. GRAFENWOEHR, Germany More than 30 veterans of the Vietnam War living in Germany were awarded pins Tuesday by the local Veterans of Foreign Wars post in recognition of their service. To make it even more complicated, just what is a combat veteran? The mood around the country was not good for the military, not like today with cheers and applause for returning members. They wore dirty boots and dog tags hanging around their necks. 1. You guessed it, my last name started with a T. Got a question 11Cav, during the Vietnam era/60s early 70s period, was there a difference between volunteering for the draft and outright enlisting? They also ate pretty well. If youre stuck on the base for days on end, visit the Wild B.O.A.R. No matter where veterans served in Vietnam, they were a close witness to danger. There werent enough NCOs (non-commissioned officers), not enough support or spare parts. I think I never knew, or know even today, of any Vietnam-era vets I would not embrace as brothers. These facilities supported the large American and NATO forces stationed for almost fifty years on the front lines of the conflict between East and West, ready to confront a Soviet invasion. In response the Corps of Engineers drastically reduced the size of EUD and reconstituted it as the Europe District. Lockbourne/Rickenbacker Air Force Base in Ohio (906th and 907th Tactical Air Groups or 355th and 356th Tactical Airlift Squadron), Westover Air Force Base in Massachusetts (731st Tactical Air Squadron and 74th Aeromedical Evacuation Squadron), Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, International Airport (758th Airlift Squadron). They were clerk typists, cooks, drivers. A rare photo of East of Underground in performance. Regardless of how we each served, part of our soul was left in that place with those who never came back alive, and with those who suffered and died after, and we should be honored for our collective loss if for no other reason. More military personnel played support roles than combat ones. Reservists who were assigned to flight, ground, or medical crew duties at the following locations between 1969 and 1986, and who developed an Agent Orange related disability. This is not about being negative or complaining, but simply having a balanced outlook for your transition. Home was tough because my parents did not agree with my volunteering. The winners toured other military bases and made records. While having a positive attitude about any PCS is important, its equally important to have realistic expectations. My middle brother died five years ago from extended PTSD and the ravages of the drug addiction he endured while trying to cope with his memories from Vietnam. "I met the singers and the other players and we got together and played, and it just kind of all meshed together.". Youre in the hot seat. You had no say in what your MOS would be. Bronze Star and the Vietnamese Army Staff Medal First Class and is the author of four books about Vietnam including The War Everyone Lost and Won.. In addition to meeting locals, walks off-base could provide valuable intelligence. Deliver vital engineering solutions, in collaboration with our partners, to secure our Nation, energize our economy, and reduce disaster risk. During the Vietnam War, the U.S. Air Force used C-123 aircraft to spray Agent Orange to clear jungles that provided enemy cover in Vietnam. Germany will remain strategically important for the US. The chow halls tried to replicate moms home cooking with menus of grilled hamburgers, roast beef with gravy, French-fried potatoes, mashed potatoes, buttered corn and asparagus, ice cream, vanilla pudding and cherry pie, Lair said. I volunteered for the draft and was sent to Ft. Lewis, Wa. The American military presence in Germany began at the end of World War II. Attention A T users. Reflecting back, Im more skeptical whether a war of choice can help defend a country in the long run. Some 20 years later, US President George W. Bush went to war with Iraq over its alleged program to develop weapons of mass destruction. The war changed and dealt cruelty to many families, not just mine, but I have seen the sadness in my fathers eyes, and we both know what is there, and what is missing.. After discharge in 1976, Thornton took his 4-year-old daughter and pregnant wife home to her family and used the GI Bill to earn an a degree in allied health sciences from University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee. Anyone who served in the military during the war faced the possibility of being sent to Vietnam, though. David Hollander produced the compilation. Today, he cautions people not to draw quick lessons from the war. Not enrolled in the VA health care system? Well, one. He wasn't wealthy or connected in anyway and he also had an Infantry MOS and he was one of three soldiers out of his basic training platoon that went to the ROK. Im also more respectful of what servicepeople endure. I say 16 months because his orders were involuntarily extended because he was in the ROK when the USS Pueblo was taken. In November Thornton journeyed to Da-Nang, Vietnam, with his wife as a keynote presenter at the Asia Pacific Mediation Forum. I didnt carry a gun, Lomperis said. People dont understand how consequential the decisions were that were being made at headquarters, he said. The tensions between the two sides were demonstrated when US Army and Soviet Union tanks faced off in a divided Berlin. The liner notes of East of Underground: Hell Below conclude with a sort of benediction, lifted wholesale from the U.S. Army Field Manual: Because of the unique ability of music to communicate, bands will serve in different capacities of publicity and recruiting, and in the support of civil affairs. Ask me or any other serviceperson and they will tell you they are proud of their service, Shkurti said. I can only speak from my own experiences. Life athome goes on without them, and it must have been difficult to navigate when they returned, she said. Of his entire graduating platoon, only he and one other trooper were sent to West Germany, all the others got orders to RVN. American expenditures on construction in Europe declined sharply. The U.S. has had personnel stationed in Germany and South Korea, two of its military allies, for several decades, yet the number of active-duty troops in each country is at a modern low. Sign up for a new account in our community. But that tradition was set on its ear back in the late 1960s and early '70s, when the PFCs stationed overseas formed their own pop bands. Napoleon said, An army marches on its stomach, and the U.S. military followed his advice. 2 weeks before we graduated they told us, " Class 17, RVN". ". At the height of the Vietnam War, Ali refused induction into the United States Army, citing his religious beliefs and opposition to the conflict. "I was shocked when I found that out myself, but it kind of makes sense," Hollander tells Guy Raz, host of weekends on All Things Considered. He was awarded the U.S. There were Viet Cong all over the place, but if you were street-smart you stayed safe, Lomperis said. They were also stationed in Germany, Japan, Thailand, Philippines, Korea, Guam and the continental United States. Many celebrities joined in the protests. The entire emphasis is on the narrow combat experience, Lair said. Being a noncombatant doesnt mean they didnt feel scared, that there wasnt a looming sense of danger even onthe biggest bases that were considered safer areas, Lair said. Based on the HMD report, VA has decided to acknowledge exposure to Agent Orange for personnel whose military service involved regular contact with the contaminated C-123 aircraft. Those aircraft were used for military airlift, medical transport, and cargo transport operations in the United States and internationally. Good food makes people feel at home, Lair said. 3. So many popular movies feature the combat side of war ground combat or maybe the air war. HMD released its report, Post-Vietnam Dioxin Exposure in Agent Orange-Contaminated C-123 Aircraft, Jan. 9, 2015. May 31, 2017 in MILITARY HISTORY DISCUSSIONS. After that, the search was on for as many of these Army bands as they could find. They deserve our respect. HMD found that Reservists who served as flight crew (pilot, navigator, flight engineer, and loadmaster), ground maintenance crew, and aero-medical personnel had regular contact with the aircraft, and would have experienced some exposure to chemicals from herbicide residue. Lewis Hitt played guitar in East of Underground. Most of all, Army bands will strive to honor General George Washington's observation, "Nothing is more agreeable and ornamental than good music. The enemy was the Soviet Union and the other signatories of the Warsaw Pact, including the German Democratic Republic, or East Germany. In Vietnam everyone knew everyone and what job they had. So he was off to Camp Casey and the 9th Infantry Manchu's for 16 months, I was in the same unit a couple of decades after him. To access the menus on this page please perform the following steps. This was because they had relatives (brothers) already serving in Vietnam. Brutal tactics were the norm during the Vietnam War, and no one suffered more than the Vietnamese themselves, both in the North and the South. He now is an adjunct professor in the John Glenn College of Public Service. Given the popular conception that being drafted during Vietnam was a guaranteed ticket to the combat zone, Ive always found it amazing how many of the people I know who served in the Army or USMC during the Vietnam War never actually went to Vietnam. He could take that information back to the base. Mastering these complicated and delicate international arrangements, EUD accomplished a large and complex construction program, especially during the 1980s. Back at home over the decades, veterans themselves may have helped camouflage the roles they played during the war. Thornton returned to school later in life and is now finishing his doctorate in business administration in the field of cross-cultural competency and conflict management. After Nazi Germany surrendered on 8 May 1945, four countries representing the Allies (the United States, United Kingdom, Soviet Union, and France) asserted joint authority I thought it would be easy, but it was actually tough, said Shkurti, who served as a fire direction officer and supervised a six-person team. However, their wartime ally, the Soviet Union, soon became an enemy. During the war, these men felt like they were part of the military endeavor, but its not what the public celebrates. It was a huge fire. The guys with the beer with hot food and hot showers, Appy said. Only about one out of seven were combat troops, said historian Chris Appy, history professor at University of Massachusetts Amherst. 5) Venice, Italy. "So this was a very viable way to avoid active duty in Southeast Asia.". They proudly served their country, but were derided by combat troops as REMFs or rear echelon mother (insert expletive here), Appy said. I worked in an air-conditioned office and wore khakis, starched shirts, spit-shined shoes and a belt with a shiny brass buckle. We had each other, and we understood it takes so much honor to serve during the tough times. The NATO maneuver Reforger I (Return of Forces to Germany) in Vilseck/Grafenwhr in 1969 was one of many joint war games held by the US Army and the Bundeswehr. During the war, in-country combat and support troops could be identified on sight, said author Timothy Lomperis, who served two tours of duty in Vietnam in the Army and Defense Intelligence Agency. Active duty personnel who served in a regular USAF unit location where a contaminated C-123 was assigned who had regular contact with the aircraft through flight, ground, or medical duties between 1969 and 1986, and who developed an Agent Orange related disability. Youth activity centers in Germany included this facility in Wiesbaden. The U.S. military presence in Germany peaked at 274,119 in 1962, nearly eight times its level last year. The thought of army music evokes a certain tradition say, trumpets and drums in the style of "Pershing's Own." They were the rear echelon. You could watch The Beverly Hillbillies, Appy said. Despite separate residential districts, there has always been contact and exchange between German and American families. I was going for many reasons, but the most important was to close a chapter of history I felt needed closing, Thornton said. They left their families to fight in a war that wasnt popular. The high rate may have been attributed to our being an Infantry MOS, but the only way you didn't go to Vietnam was because of the above reasons. Deploy network infrastructure faster and easier than ever before, with pre-packaged yet massively scalable infrastructure components for top packet and optical systems. "Bear in mind that these bands were all engaged in a show band contest in 1971 and 1972, and the winners of the that contest would then be able to tour Europe, and would also record an LP in the Armed Forces Network studios in Frankfurt. After the defeat of Germany, the relatively small American force in Europe was preoccupied with the administration and reconstruction of their former foe. He was stationed in Gillenhausen, protecting a valley called Folda Gap. The band formed while its members were stationed in Germany during the Vietnam War. have hearing loss. When we graduated we lined up in front of a building that you entered one at a time on one side and after getting your paper work you exited out the other side. But as the confrontation between the Soviet Union, our former ally, intensified with the Berlin blockade and the outbreak of the Korean War, American leaders grew fearful that the next target of international communism was Western Europe, which contained our most important democratic allies and a rapidly rebuilding capitalist economy. At the end of the spraying campaign in 1971, the remaining C-123 planes were reassigned to reserve units in the U.S. for routine cargo and medical evacuation missions spanning the next 10 years. 7th Army in particular suffered heavily, especially with loses of combat arms NCOs Then there was the two infantry brigades in Alaska, the 171st and 172nd, both gave up one battalion each for transfer to the 25th Infantry Division in Hawaii before it left there for South Vietnam, two full battalions had to be raised to replace the ones sent away. Upon graduating they lined us and announced that if your last name started with A through J your orders were Germany and K through Z your orders were Vietnam. It's there to boost morale, it's there to provide entertainment and comfort for soldiers, it's there to sort of represent what the U.S. is musically, culturally to the rest of the world.".

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